Women and Topping — Can We Talk?
(Disclaimer: I do not intend this post to offend anyone, or make them feel defensive. This is simply a subject I’m passionate about, I want to speak my truths about it, and I would like others to as well. I hope you will share yours with me.)
You all know I’m a big fan of Jillian Keenan’s. I subscribe to her Patreon channel and I enjoy her videos. Her most recent two have been about “Spanko Self-Awareness” — the questions we all need to ask ourselves to determine what works for us in TTWD… and what doesn’t. In Part 2, released last weekend, she delves into some deeper questions. One of which is “Do I like a thing because I like it? Or because I like the attention it brings me?”
She does not posit this with any sort of judgment either way; it’s simply a request for self-honesty. The more we know about ourselves in this scene, the better choices we can make, and the more we can be our truest selves.
As this question is explored, she goes into a specific situation: namely, the pressure women in our scene receive to switch/top. She brings up the unfortunate fact of how women, as we age, are often devalued in society (and in the scene too… unless we learn how to top). Topping, for a woman in the spanking scene, may be a way to gain back some of that value. And value = positive attention. Let’s be honest — we all like attention, at least to some degree. (I’m not saying y’all are attention whores like me, but come on, it’s nice to be appreciated, no?)
This is a direct quote from Jillian, and I listened three times and wrote it down to make sure I got it right:
“No one is more popular at a spanking party,
or in more demand as a play partner,
than a woman who is holding a hairbrush.”
I don’t disagree with this at all. I think she’s right. But you know what? It pisses me off! I would happily accept “as popular as,” or “as much in demand as.” But more? Why? It doesn’t seem fair. And it’s especially not fair to those of us who have absolutely no desire to top.
Which brings me to my controversial question, and what might put some people’s noses out of joint. For all the spanko women out there, whether professionals in the industry or not, who transitioned into topping: I would love to know the percentage of those who did so because they genuinely wanted to, because they enjoy topping — and the percentage of those who started topping because they felt pressured to do so. Because they thought their continued acceptance in the scene hinged upon that.
Again, no judgment. Just curious. And yes, I know professionals can’t really answer me here. It would be detrimental for business if a spanking model were to publicly admit here, “Yeah, topping isn’t really my thing, but I had to learn to do it anyway because money.” A female bottom’s shelf life in the film/session industry is limited. A female top, on the other hand, can keep going well into her fifties and sixties. There may be exceptions, but generally, past a particular age, a woman needs to switch, or go behind the camera and produce, in order to remain competitive. The most successful women producers I know of do both.
I am a rebel in this scene. I have staunchly resisted two things that seem almost expected of women: 1. Switching, and 2. Playing with other women. I simply don’t want to, never did, and I never will.
But wait, Erica… what about that one time…? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who’s been with me over the years knows damn well that I topped a young girl on video once, back in 2004. And yes, I played a mom. It was a very domestic scene, nothing sensual about it, her bent over the kitchen table and me with a wooden spoon. Why did I do it? Because I really, really, really wanted to be in this film — it was Spanking Epics’ premiere film, and I wanted in on it. It was a brief scene. And my reward would be getting to bottom later in the film.
But… I hated doing it. Hated every damn minute of it. I still can’t watch that scene. I sucked at it. And oh, the crap I took for it. “My three-year-old could spank harder than that!” Oh, and my favorites, along these lines: “Oh boy, you’re playing a mom already? It’s all downhill from here!” Screw that. Yeah, I played a frumpy widowed mother in 1912, with unflattering hair and clothes. But I also got to do this:
Yup, that was my old mom butt. Put that in your pipe and shove it. (Yeah, I know that’s not how the expression goes. I don’t care.)
However, aside from that, I somehow managed to carve out eighteen years of bottoming on video, even though I was well past the age most women do it. When I first started out, I took a look at some of the producer sites, and when it came to applying to appear on film as a bottom, I saw the same thing many times: “Women 18-35.” Well, humph. I was definitely past that. Fortunately, Shadow Lane didn’t have this limitation, and they happily cast me as a bottom in my first video (and three more after that). But at the time, that was a rarity. In later years, I think production companies let go of some of this ageism and several others cast me. However…
I am not immune to ageing. My body, face and skin have seen some changes. But I do have a few things going for me. I have a youthful air about me. I’ve shunned the sun for years. I keep myself fit with diet and regular exercise. And I made no secret of the fact that I had a face lift. So, I believe the average viewer, not knowing me personally (and not looking too closely), thinks I’m younger than I really am. And I believe that was, at least in part, one of the primary reasons I lasted as long as I did.
Don’t believe that? True story, and I am removing all identifiers. A few years ago, a production company received a request for a custom shoot, and the client specifically requested me in the bottom role. The producer told their client, “I’ll ask Erica, but I’m not sure if she’s still shooting. If she isn’t, would someone else work? How about [another model]?” The client’s answer?
“No, I don’t want [her]. She’s too old.”
As it happened, there was a fourteen-year span between me and the suggested alternative. And no, I don’t mean she was older. I mean she was fourteen years younger. Ouch.
So yeah, ageism is alive and well in the scene, just like in overall society. But forget about the professional world for now. What about average female bottoms, going to parties, enjoying bottoming to different play partners, but finding that as they get older, their play time somehow seems to dwindle? What to do? Oh, and one more point of irritation. There is an attitude that subtly worms its way through not just the spanking scene, but all types of kink — that being, if you are in a scene for X amount of time, you are somehow expected to branch out, to get into new things, to experiment further, to… I hate this fucking word… evolve. In other words, if you don’t grow in your scene, you’re stagnant and un-evolved? What if you just happen to like one thing, like one thing a lot, and are perfectly content sticking with that and have no desire to do other stuff? Why is that somehow considered “less than”?
I’m digressing. My point is, between the ageism and the pressure to evolve, female bottoms have a challenge being true to their inner desires. That at some point, even if it’s not a desire that comes naturally and organically to them, they feel pressure to top.
So, ladies… who out there would be willing to admit that, while you might enjoy topping on occasion, it’s not really and truly your thing, that your true love is bottoming? Who would confess that they initially tried it not out of desire, but out of feeling pressure? Again, this is not a judgment thing. I’m trying to establish just how prevalent and pervasive the pressure to switch/top is. Also, I’d like to know, if you started out doing it out of pressure, did you grow to like it? Or did you simply accept that it’s now something you do, and you keep doing it because 1. it gives your friends pleasure, and 2. you feel like you’re more in demand/more highly valued in the scene because of it?
And of course, if you top because you love it, because you always wanted to, then more power to you! Enjoy your ageless popularity. Hell, I’ve often said I wished I were more versatile and liked to do more things in our scene. More fun to be had, right? But I’m simply not. I had to make my choices. And I wonder about the choices of others sometimes. Peer pressure — and the pressure to maintain one’s perceived value, even if that’s just in our own head — is powerful AF.
Erica Scott: Life, Love and Spanking 
I actually watched that this morning, despite not having seen part one. That part did make me think. I think I’ve always been pretty honest about it. My spanking journey started online when I was very young, and fresh out of an extreme Christian cult, married at 18 as a virgin, trying to figure out how to get what I needed from my vanilla ex. My deeply ingrained interest had always been mostly about being spanked. I was very naive in general, and I started out mostly interested in male tops. I remember chatting early on, and feeling frustrated when I wanted to talk about being spanked, but some men would pretend to be into that, then pull the old switcheroo, and start using me to fantasize about being spanked without my consent. I’m not sure if they were bottoms and lying about being switches, or what, but invariably it seemed they wanted to mostly fantasize about being spanked. I did resist it then. I do understand that there aren’t enough women who truly want to top all the time, but you still shouldn’t push people into things they don’t want to do!
However, in time, I guess I did somewhat “evolve” on it, but that’s not in any way to say that there’s anything wrong with only liking one thing your whole life. This is something we do for fun and pleasure, fulfillment, and while service topping might make sense sometimes for some people, it should never be done out of obligation. There’s no right or wrong way to enjoy kink, as long as it’s safe and consensual. The only prize at the end for trying new things is the enjoyment they bring, so if they don’t bring any for you, there’s no point. For me, I remember there was a guy I was talking to, after I was divorced and looking to meet spankos, but before I did anything professionally. I liked him, and he was a switch, encouraged me a little bit to talk about me spanking him, but I did start to realize I was getting excited by the idea of it with him. I later had a long distance relationship with a guy where he mostly topped me, but we would occasionally switch, and it was really exciting when we did.
It’s not something I crave the same way I crave being spanked, but I did come to realize that it was stimulating, especially if a scenario or dynamic really pushed my spanko buttons. I’m just extremely into spanking, regardless of gender of the participants, or who is topping. It was fun and hot to be the boss sometimes. I also realized pretty early on that I had always been attracted to and wanted to play with cute girls, and that can be lots of fun/hot too. When it comes down to it, I enjoy topping, and definitely have a “mom” side, but can live without it more easily than I could live without bottoming. It also has always been pretty physically taxing for me to give spankings, so I usually didn’t top for lengthy scenes at parties without it being a paid session. Not because I secretly hated it, but because I could only do a limited amount, and it became my main source of income. I guess I could’ve been more popular if I’d been able to top every guy for free, but oh well. I think I’m probably about a 75/25 switch, with the stronger preference for bottoming.
The pressure you speak of absolutely does exist, if only for supply and demand reasons, but sadly I agree that ageism is a factor as well. Thankfully, there are tops who still enjoy us, even as we become ancient. Not everyone suffers from arrested development and perpetually needs to trade in play partners for a younger model, even as they themselves age. Another thing I realized pretty early on, was that the prejudices of production companies didn’t always reflect what the entirety of audiences actually wanted. Sure, you encounter the shallow creeps who only want to see very young girls, or girls who look like supermodels, but there are other people who prefer someone a bit more like fine wine, with whom they might have more in common, and thus more fun.
There are also women of all ages who like to buy spanking videos, and many of them like seeing someone who looks more like them being spanked. I’ve had multiple strangers write to tell me such things over the years. I think there’s room for everyone, but agree that it’s not awesome when women feel pressured to do things they’re not really into to maintain popularity. I’ve even heard of women (and men, actually) who exclusively top professionally and/or socially, but in reality love bottoming, yet don’t want anyone to know because they think it would be bad for their reputation and/or business. I think it’s sad that there has been so much judgment in the past that some people didn’t feel able to live authentically, even in a scene that’s supposed to be all about that. I do think that’s starting to change a bit these days, and most younger people seem to care much less about such things. Well, I know that I owe you a msg sis, but I wrote this instead! 🤷🏼♀️☺️❤
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I can’t speak from personal experience about play parties or video shoots, but personally I would not feel comfortable topping, and have no desire to “evolve” into anything other than a bottom. Oddly enough, when I receive emails from male readers, they often address me as if I were a top. Where did they get that idea?
I love Lily’s comment.
Hugs,
Hermione
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Lily — thank you so much! This is exactly what I was hoping to generate with this post, some interesting discussion. And yes! I’ve known of pro tops who bottom in secret because it would “ruin their credibility” if they were seen bottoming. Kind of a shame.
Again, I have no issue with evolution in one’s scene if it happens organically and through one’s own choices. But I don’t like the implied pressure to do so. I still squirm every time I get asked, “Well, what other kinks are you into?”
You are a perfect example of a woman who enjoys both for different reasons and I’m so glad you took the time to comment here! ♥
Hermione — yeah, what’s up with that? Wishful thinking, maybe? Or that damned assumption that all female spankos past 30 become tops? Meh.
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I knew this was coming. LOL
That’s why I mentioned it to you. I can’t speak from experience so I will sit back and read the comments. I hope there are a lot of them.
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Chibob — I hope so too! I linked this elsewhere and some people are commenting in those places, but I wish they would comment here. We’ll see.
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Hi Erica. I’ve had this discussion with a couple of close friends before, specifically regarding the expectations of women to top as they age in the scene.
Personally, I started topping around the age of 31. It wasn’t something that I had planned to do, but after a couple of times attending a house party hosted by a F/m couple, I felt bad that the male host was not getting much play at all, because the only female Top there was his wife and she was always busy and occupied, hosting and what not. At one of those parties, I mustered up the courage to ask him if I could top him, and after we talked about it for a bit, he agreed.
It started from there, and for a while he was the only person I topped. And then one day I worked up the courage (again) to ask a female friend if I could spank her. She very enthusiastically said yes, and we had an amazing scene. I started topping a couple other female friends after that, and quickly realized that when it comes to topping, I really, really, REALLY enjoy spanking other women.
I make no secrets of this preference. I guess I could get more attention and gain more popularity as a party attendee and play partner if I topped men too, but I am protective of my toppy energy and I recognize my strong preference for topping women over men – so, with the exception of 1 or 2 good male friends, I stick to topping other women only. I even turned down a request to be one of the lady spankers at a F/m event once.
I guess this is my long-winded answer to your question – I top/switch because I enjoy it, and I top/switch within the boundaries of my preference 🙂
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Hi Dotty! Thank you for taking the time to write this, especially since you’re at a party! I like your example — you started out initially to do something nice, and then realized you really liked it. You know your own boundaries and you keep to them. Win-win, sounds like. ♥
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Hi! Erica, I’m not involved in TTWD at all, but as you know I love reading Dev’s books and watching is DVD’s especially my favourite Stand Corrected, he never wanted me to get his last DVD, saying it’s too graphic for ‘his good girls’ but I bought it after he passed away so he couldn’t yell at me, not chicken hey?!! As for the discussion, I myself only like M/F dynamic, but each to their own. Bye for now, Jenny.
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This isn’t directly responsive to your post because I’ve never been active in the scene, just in personal relationships, but it’s related. When the internet came along, giving me an opportunity to chat with other spankos about TTWD, it became clear to me that the vast majority of spanko women are naturally drawn to bottoming just as a majority of spanko men are naturally drawn to topping. So I started wondering, is that a cultural norm or is it something innate in our natures as males and females? To answer my own question, I feel it’s a blend of both, with greater emphasis on our preferences being part of our makeup from birth.
Most of my experience interacting with spanko women, outside of my personal relationships, has been in chatting and some role play. But not once have I encountered a woman who wanted to top. And I’ve chatted with women in several foreign countries, which would argue that our preferences are far more innate than they are imbued in cultural norms.
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Bob — I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the naturally drawn theory, simply because it assumes a lot and I think some people might take exception to it. I can only speak for myself in this. In the broader scene, I think more switches (all genders) exist than just one or the other (top/bottom).
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I can speak only for myself in my sheltered bubble. I don’t recall ever feeling a desire to top anyone. That’s not me. Were my world different, I suppose I might consider it as a pragmatic alternative to not playing, but that’s not a decision I have had to consider.
I agree with Hermione. What is it with guys who think I should spank them? What one word have I’ve ever written that gave them that expectation? Insert eye roll here.
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In our day to day lives it is necessary to constantly do things and assume personas that don’t reflect our true selves. This is necessary to keep employed or sometimes to maintain a relationship, or generally stay out of trouble. Playing around with TTWD is the one time you should stay focused on what YOU really want – – It’s all
about having fun bringing pleasure to you and your play-partner. If you force yourself to ‘fake it’ the fun diminishes quickly.
As far as Erica ‘aging’ – – As the kids say ‘IMHO’ I think you are getting better looking as time goes by. I think you be even more of a classic beauty at 80 than you are now. And believe me, you are one hot babe in the present day!
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Bonnie — well, it’s all part of that “evolve” thing. You, Hermione and I are all “of a certain age,” and it seems to be a common assumption that bottom women “mature” into topping. Which annoys the hell out of me.
Anonymous — thank you; I appreciate the compliment. You make a good point; we all have to fake things in the day to day, in order to get along with others. Our kink lives should be the one place where we don’t have to, where we can be who we are without feeling pressure to change (as long as we’re not hurting anyone).
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I had to take some time to think on this. I spoke to a few friends on the scene about this. My personal experience is slightly different. I entered the spanko scene later in life (at 40) so I had a frenzy moment of wanting to do everything and play with everyone. My happy place is bottoming and initially I saw a wonderful professional disciplinarian that helped me realize my love of spanking was something I needed in my life. It was this love of it that prompted me to play. I got lucky and met a Top that helped me explore spanking in every way imaginable haha. I bottomed a lot at parties my first year in the scene, but there was one party where there were not enough tops for male bottoms, and at the time in my core I felt everyone should have a chance to experience it, because for me just experiencing the initial spanking from the professional had helped me come to terms with who I am. I did clarify each and every time that my preference is bottoming. Now, as I get even older, the pressure to top is more pronounced, I love spanking play in my heart but these days it is harder for me to find my “toppiness” and as I am older, I sometimes feel sillier about bottoming outside of the friend group I have made. I have complex feelings about topping lol I enjoy it for the most part but my happy place is bottoming lol I hope my ramblings made some sense.
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Jeanna Lou — absolutely, it makes sense. I mean, it’s a complicated subject, and I appreciate people like you coming forward to offer your thoughts. Thank you! ♥ And I do understand that frenzy of activity — I did it too, like many of us do, kids let loose in a candy store, especially when we get into this later in life. It took a while to settle and realize what I really wanted… and what I didn’t.
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I’m coming at this from the male/top side of things, so there is going to be a bit of a disconnect from what the ladies in this discussion are experiencing.
I will say that as a top (man or woman) there seems to be slight pressure to “evolve” and expand skillsets. I mostly started out with spanking and some wax play, and I did expand into some other practises I was interested in. However, I often have people ask, basically: “What else do you do?” You do rope ties, but what about suspension? You do wax, but what about fire cupping? You do knives, but what about more edgy play?
There seems to be a slight expectation there that the longer you’re in the community the more your interests should expand. For some people they do. For me they have a little. But my core focus has remained mostly the same and I think that goes against the expectation. My appears to mirror’s Erica’s in this regard.
Getting to the topic of women taking on roles in the kink community, I wonder if some of the women “transitioning from bottoms to tops” is also the natural filling of a demand for services, along with social/ageism pressure? From what I’ve seen in the local community, women acting as Dommes are quite rare. There are a lot of men (and some women) out there seeking women who will dom/top them. And the search is often frustrating because relatively few women take on the Domme role.
There may be a sort of natural “filling the void” action happening where some of the women who are switching are feeling confident enough and experienced enough in the scene to change roles and top the people seeking female dominants/tops.
I’ve talked to a few young women who said they switched to more toppy roles because that was where the attention (or money or dates) were. It was easier for them to be a rare woman topping than yet along woman bottoming in the scene. I’m not suggesting this is good or bad, but it might be a factor in why a “lady with a hairbrush” is so popular at parties.
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Ben — thank you so much for your input. You’re not the first person to say that women tops are rare. Are they really? I mean, I see plenty of them in my social media perusals. I haven’t been a party for a while, but I saw a lot of them there too. And certainly there are plenty in the industry as well. I suppose it’s all relative. As for the “is that all you do?” bit, my answer is yes, that’s all I do, but I defy you to find anyone who threw themselves into it 150% like I did, whose passion for it exceeds mine. I may not have quantity of kinks, but I have quality for my lone fetish, a wealth of experience and stories. It’s irksome when that is discounted.
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In my experience women who are primarily dominant are rare. In my (admittedly small) area, I think I know most of the people who play publicly or at big events. I can think of two or three women who primarily top and two of them are… Well, they’ve burned a lot of bridges. So that leaves one lady who identifies primarily as a domme that I can think of who people are likely to seek out for play.
Which, when you consider I know probably between one and two dozen local tops who are men and a few dozen women who strictly (or primarily) bottom, and a handful of men who bottom… Women who are dommes/tops are proportionally the most rare. At least in my corner of the community.
I suspect though (and this is just a guess) women who are dommes probably are more inclined to be active on social media, particularly if they want to turn pro. It’s a good way to get connected and/or promote themselves. I do see a fair number of women dommes online, but most of them are professionals.
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I also like all of her posts. She thinks and makes sense. She makes a serious effort, and does it well.
I’ve only been a top.
I have seen over the years other men who now top, who started on the bottom and say they prefer the bottom or at least like it a lot. So it is not just women bottoms who are pushed to “evolve.” One runs his own video site, as its top, despite his proclaimed start on the bottom. I mention him because he had a very harsh response detailing this to a man who indignantly attacked him on a blog site as an abuser who wouldn’t act that way if he was on the receiving end of the abuse he inflicted on women!
I have also heard many times that a good top must have been a bottom, or s/he does not really know what s/he’s doing. I disagree. But I’ve heard it constantly. It is a pressure for men who top to try it on the bottom, or be devalued.
Thus, I understand your concern, and I share it from the opposite side, male and top, but told a “real” person like me would evolve.
Bottoms face some puzzlement from outsiders who can’t imagine why they do that. Tops face hostility because they are “abusers.” In fact, Jillian and her “Daddy” talked about that too, very recently. They are both sensitive about people judging him for what they like to do together.
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I’ve never understood the idea that a person should bottom to be a good top. I can see how it could give some insight, but so can studying to be a good top! We don’t expect trauma surgeons to get shot to be better doctors. We don’t tell students they can’t learn properly unless they’ve been teachers. We don’t tell social workers they need to be abused to be good at their jobs. You’d never tell a criminal they can’t steal properly until they’ve been a lawyer.
That kind of narrow-minded thinking, trying to squeeze people into different roles to somehow make things “balanced” seems silly.
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I only scened once……with a female Top. I’ve done this casually and seriously, and have switched. The one ‘truism’ I’ve heard countless times which has also been asserted here is that female Tops are as rare as an anti-Trump Republican ;-). But if that is true, then my own decades long personal experience must mean I am some sort of Domme-whisperer, because I simply have always managed to find them. Believe me, it wasn’t like hunting for truffles without a hound. Every time I paired up with someone I found interesting, no matter how the kink dynamic originated, eventually nearly every single woman ended up gleefully Topping me and saying that they finally felt like they were where they belonged.
With my own wife, Rosa, when we first started to show signs of being interested in each other, I felt like she had Top potential but logically believed that her cultural background likely meant the opposite. I remember repeatedly warning her to not get too interested in me, because she would likely be disappointed. Fast-forward and Rosa ultimately revealed that as a Top in a DD relationship, she feels like she is right where she belongs. It isn’t forced, bribed, compromised, or faked for my benefit. She IS a natural Top, enjoying both authority, and inflicting consensual pain. She has no problem spanking as play, nor as genuine punishment, and is guiltless in doling out a bun-burner when it’s deserved.
I have a close friend, Nickki, who has Rosa’s permission to be a kind of second authority figure. She had no experience with this and yet, she is just as comfortable as an authority figure and disciplinarian as Rosa. I could go on.
So…….in my anecdotal experience, with a slew of people, most of whom I met in the real world and not through a kinky app., there are more women out there with a Top waiting to be let out than people obviously think. And the reason they seem so elusive is societal. Women are supposed to be the submissive nurturers, and these ladies have competencies and inclinations that fly in the face of that, so many keep it hidden. Once it’s “OK” to let the real personality out, they are confident, competent, and even strict!
Percentage-wise? Yes, the opposite inclination is drastically more prevalent, but those Tops are out there…..and not because they are bowing to any kind of pressure to be dominant. In fact, as I said, it is a different kind of pressure….one that encourages sweet, nurturing, submission….. that has been keeping them hidden.
Good topic! Sorry I was late to the ‘party’. I just haven’t had the inclination to post much since my blog was nuked.
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KD — thanks for the perspective! It’s good to see you. You always bring something interesting and thought-provoking to the table.
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Thanks, Dear. If you don’t mind a bit of an addendum, after I posted and started working in my garden, I kept thinking about this topic and another thought occurred to me that I believe may explain the skewed experiences.
I didn’t ‘scene’ much but knew ‘scene people’. It seems the world of scening and the world of private ‘play’ (including the smaller, less ‘playful’ subset of DD) are quite different. One difference is the big step a scene person takes when going out and declaring themselves a spanko/kinkster to like-minded people. I would imagine a woman doing this is probably driven by a strong, personal need and in my experience “subs” are the needier role by nature.
The majority of people I ended up in relationships with were just people I met at school, work, or in the course of daily life. Perhaps, possessing no driving, hungry need for spanking, these ladies never ever considered joining the spanking scene. However, when presented with the opportunity to be in a dominant role, have control, power, authority, autonomy, and the satisfaction of letting out their darker sides by inflicting pain that is actually welcome, and not having to experience pain themselves, these “regular ladies” naturally gravitate to a dominant role?
A scene lady I spent quite a bit of time subbing to told me she envied my incorporation of my kink into my daily life and not just as a sometimes event with different people.
I personally find scene stuff quite different than what I do and have done for decades. This has resulted in me often resenting articles on spanking, where the writer researched their material solely by interviewing Pro Dommes, and well-known scene players. These articles then tell the vanilla world just one side of the spanko world. And what these folks describe as their usual activities and their thoughts in doing them seem as alien to me as when I describe domestic discipline to them! LOL
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I really appreciate this perspective, and tend to agree! It always bothers me when people have the belief that women are more “naturally submissive.” Women do tend to be more submissive in general, but that behavior is CONDITIONED. I mean, when I was 5 years old, I was lining up all my dolls and stuffies, and spanking them one by one, playing The Old Woman Who Lived In A Shoe. Yet, by the time I found kink, I thought I was only interested in bottoming, because of everything that happened in between.
I also agree that “the scene” and pro dommes can give a skewed view, vs what actually goes on in private kinky bedrooms/relationships around the world. I think there are lots of ladies who enjoy wielding the power once in awhile, or even exclusively. In addition to everything that has been mentioned, I’d also say that there’s another reason that many male subs have trouble finding a willing female spanker. Their entitled attitude. Often, women are treated like party favors and vending machines, and that will turn off dominant women who aren’t professionals. It turns off pros too, but sometimes a job is a job.
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Thank, Lily. I have long maintained that guys in general are clueless as to how they approach relationships, let alone kinky ones. I am neither rich nor handsome……just average in both arenas…..and yet, I have never had an issue finding like-minded people to play, or better yet, have a relationship with. (One of the reasons I posted so many personal photos on my now-defunct blog was to prove that I wasn’t making up what I was writing about! One would think from reading what I’ve done and still do, that it’s just phony fantasy……but it’s not. If guys would just get a clue, use their heads, develop a little style and finesse, and read people for what they may have in them, there would be far fewer sad tales of woe about finding a dominant woman to hook up with.)
My biggest observation is that submissive men are often anything but, instead they are kinky guys who want to script their submission. Now input is fine, as are preferences and limits, but how do you convince a person of either gender to take a confident, dominant role, if all you do is tell them what they’re doing wrong?
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KD — no, of course I don’t mind.
DD is something so foreign to me. I guess all I’ve known is a spanking “scene,” because when I got into it, I discovered the community from the get-go. I derived a lot of joy from the exuberance and openness of people en masse fully engaged in our kink.
Of course, the scene at times has broken my heart as well.
So many differences within one little kink. It’s amazing to me sometimes, how some people think we’re one-dimensional, boring, or un-evolved. There is so much more to us than they know.
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Hi Erica
I am Intersex! So my spanking needs are in many was the same or in some ways very different 🤔.
I like Jillian’s posts as well! They are fascinating and I think often the complex topics she brings up in her posts are always good for those of us who are spankos of different backgrounds.
I must be honest I am still asking these questions now in my early 40s since I was a child🤔.
As I get older and I now read posts from people like Jillian and yourself, I find help me in dealing with my Spanking kink and fetish.
Hopefully one day I will finally understand my mind and personality.
In many ways I still think I am only halfway from understanding my own self.
Anyhow great post once again.
Kind Regards
Joel
I am going to be honest! I am a hopeless top and am only good as a bottom.
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Joel — well, with that last part, we definitely have something in common! grinning
Halfway is better than no way. Keep going.
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I would love to know the percentage of those who did so because they genuinely wanted to, because they enjoy topping — and the percentage of those who started topping because they felt pressured to do so. Because they thought their continued acceptance in the scene hinged upon that.
You rang? I’m a dominant woman who genuinely enjoys topping – and yet have never really felt “accepted” in the scene.
The “acceptance” of female tops is conditional – IMO, based on still being willing to cater to male fantasy, perceived attractiveness, being white, thin, etc. Fitting a certain mold, and not being multi-dimensional.
I’m a spanko who enjoys spanking and being spanked. In my 30s now, and have been “in the scene” for about a decade. I’ve seen a lot, and much of it hasn’t appealed to me. If I didn’t need to scratch my itch, I wouldn’t be attending parties and events, because it’s been very hard to find “my people”.
What Lily mentioned brought it home to me. The fact that so much of the spaning scene is controlled by and centered around the professional production of spanking porn content vs. people connecting and having fun does change its flavor.
No ire against professionals or professional “party people” – those willing to show their faces, and be our “mascots” of sort keep spankos visible enough to not go completely underground or extinct.
But it does shift expectations – especially that of men for all women at parties to be “in character” and there to act out their fantasies. If a significant % of the women there, in fact, are.
Spanko circles – are very difficult to find a boyfriend, husband, or partner in, because of so many men or married or chasing models, and fantasies. That shouldn’t be surprised, because most women wouldn’t expect to find eligible men at a Maxim or Playbook conference.
The kink scene isn’t perfect, but the fact that women are there to get their jollies met also, is much more balanced IMO.
Like someone else mentioned, I learned I could get my “cravings” met, by being the one doing the spanking. Without even having to bare my bottom. That made playing in public more, actually happen. And it was just easier being the one doing the spanking.
I have more control in my movements, and can actually watch what’s happening around me.
I’m a “non-professional”, who just likes spanking people, men or women. I also enjoy being spanked, but I am more private about that and discrete.
Being spanked in public just isn’t my thing so that only leaves me spanking or “topping” others at events and parties. I haven’t ever felt any pressure to ‘become a top’, but I have had men ignore my boundary of not being interested in being spanked. Like following me around an event, expecting me to suddenly change my mind.
Getting spanked by men then saying it was “their turn” and only fair to spank me.
Or saying that it was a “shame”, that I didn’t like being spanked. Or assuming that I must secretly want to be spanked by them, despite obviously having a “top” tag or sticker or whatever. Seeing my dominance as a “preference”, and theirs as nature.
Noticing a theme?
In general, many men push boundaries and try to turn women against whatever their nature is – this has nothing to do with being a spanko, and more to do with trying to manipulate and control others. So I ignore them. By nature, I am a dominant woman (Not in the D/S flavor), that enjoys spanking adults who have the same fetish.
I have zero interest in being controlled by anyone. Even someone supposedly who wants to be “submissive” to me….
Only allowing other women to spank me, has made my life much easier. And as a spanker, I spank both men and women.
I’ve been in the “spanking scene”, but still don’t really feel like a part of it. There is a Pleasantville-like culture, that I sometimes enjoy for the kink factor. But really sucks if you are anyone different. POC especially are still seen as a side show, novelty, or as an interloper.
We’ve really got to evolve, because this just isn’t cute, or appealing for the next generation.
#isaidwhatisaid
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***Giving a man a spanking then them saying it was “their turn” and only fair to spank me.
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LoveOnTop — thank you so much for coming by to share this. You definitely gave me what I asked for and also provided a lot of food for thought. I appreciate it.
Yeah… the spanking scene has its challenges. I did do the pro thing, but my situation was unusual — I did it purely for fun, not as a living, so I got to do it the way I chose to, not how demands dictated. And it’s funny how we’ve encountered the opposite — I get “are you sure you don’t top?” and “You would be a great top!” Why, because I have a strong personality? Why would that automatically be assumed to mean I want to top anyone? (sigh)
I do agree — for many reasons, things need to change. I’m glad I got to enjoy what I did.
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I adore you Erica
All the best. Forever and ever
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I’m a woman and I’m a sadist, so yes I just enjoy it. I also personally hate the idea that mainstream society(and many with the fetish too) has of women always being the bottoms, so I have very different feelings about this. I also agree with what LoveonTop said, men just want to push women’s boundaries
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A — sounds like it is absolutely your choice, which is great. More power to you. I just don’t like that women who are content to stay bottoms are pressured to top, more so as they get older. I mean, it’s a deeply personal choice, an orientation, and it’s up to the individual — not what the scene thinks is appropriate.
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